- To learn more about Tad Hargrave check out marketingforhippies.com
- Tads mentor Ari Galper, trust based sales and marketing at unlockthegame.com
If you enjoyed this episode on marketing your conscious business you might also enjoy episode 042 Thriving in business and life without social media with Bradley T Morris
Silas Rose 0:41
Well, hello, dear listener, my name is Silas Rose. an this is Awake In Relationship. If you’re into personal development work, and I imagine you probably are, if you’re listening to this podcast, you might know that there are a few challenges greater to personal growth and self awareness than starting a business. I think this is definitely true for anyone that might consider themselves a social entrepreneur, or conscious creator. I define that person really quite broadly as anyone who is intrinsically motivated to do good in the world through in their business. I’ve been in this camp really for most of my adult life, as I ran a acupuncture practice for many years. And one thing I noticed, especially with health entrepreneurs, as they are 100% invested in serving their clients. They’re really heart centred people. But when it comes to marketing, or selling their service, many stumble and struggle with this tension between selling and serving. For entrepreneurs, this really sets a limit, both on the impact and income one receives. So I want to bring in someone that really knows this territory well, and has worked with 1000s of entrepreneurs, to hone their message and create alignment with the people they most want to serve. In this episode of Awake In Relationship, I speak with Tad Hargrave, business mentor and coach and MarketingforHippies.com, which is a unique membership community serving social entrepreneurs and green businesses around the world. In this conversation, Tad and I really go deep into the foundations of what it takes to create a conscious business in the digital age. One of the things I love in this conversation is really, Tad’s folksy wisdom, which reduces the complexity, and overwhelm of marketing to three simple principles, which actually can be applied in almost any relationship, especially when it comes to dating. So if you’re starting or growing a business, or perhaps looking for a mate, this episode is for you.
Tad good morning, and welcome to awaken relationship.
Tad Hargrave 3:13
Thanks so much, good to be here.
Silas Rose 3:14
Yeah, I first, I think I first attended one of your workshops, marketing for hippies, almost 20 years ago. I’m not too sure when you started, but I was just coming out of acupuncture school and eager to build a business and you came onto my radar and you’re still going. That’s amazing!
Tad Hargrave 3:41
Amazes me too.
Silas Rose 3:44
Yeah, What was the original inspiration to get into this work and teaching about marketing, especially for people that historically kind of resist that concept?
Tad Hargrave 3:58
Well, an incredible inability to hold down a job is always a good motivation and these things. I mean, I really I just struggled with being employed by others, too strongly opinionated rankled having a boss. So I just knew I needed some independence. And then I tried leading kind of summer camps gatherings, where there was a lot of facilitation and holding space, but I realized I really liked to talk a lot. And that was a problem. You’re trying to hold space, but you’re always the one filling it. And then I had this background, a little bit in marketing and I had so many friends who, who didn’t, but needed it for their business. They were trying to be a holistic practitioner or thinking about the whole green business thing you know, they didn’t want to work for the man either. They had the same affliction, but they were way stymied on how to tell people about what they did it, especially when we all came from this hippie background of, you know, marketing is the devil and capitalism is the devil. But suddenly, because you don’t want to work for the man, that becomes one of the only options and then how to grow, how to grapple with that. So I had some thoughts and some expertise, and it just began and a lot of it developed as I went.
Silas Rose 5:29
Has there been kind of evolution of thought or with your audience, people you are speaking to?
Tad Hargrave 5:39
Certainly, there’s been an evolution around my thoughts. One of the big transitions was I came across the work of this fellow Ari Galperin, I can’t remember what year it was. But he really shifted things for me that the focus of marketing is not about trying to get the sale, but trying to get to the truth of is this a fit or not. He’s got a great website on lock the game.com. And that was one of the major evolutions and then, you know, a lot of it came in from working with my people. And I thought, when I started, I was going to be working with green local, independent retail. That was who I approached first, my first workshops were were a lot of those people. And then one day, I looked up and realized that half of them are holistic practitioners or life coaches. And so then, for a while, I shifted, I had a workshop marketing one on one for holistic practitioners. And that’s what I did. And that, of course, made everything easier, and then brought it back out again. But yeah, that’s been the general trajectory of it.
Silas Rose 6:47
And you’ve kind of mostly transitioned to an online community. Is that correct?
Tad Hargrave 6:51
Yeah, the lockdown had a lot to do that I was already doing more and more online. But then when I couldn’t do live workshops, I mean, like a lot of us, we just had to figure out some way to, to adapt. And so then I created a membership, which I’d thought about for years, but suddenly, I had all this time on my hands. I said, Okay, this isn’t the time to do it.
Silas Rose 7:11
So the name Marketing for Hippies is just such a great name. From a marketing perspective, right? Because you’re really nailing your niche, I’m a West Coast guy. I definitely own my inner hippie. I have lots of hippie qualities. But I think a lot of people might still have kind of negative stereotypes about what a hippie is, how do you define a hippie?
Tad Hargrave 7:43
Very broadly. You know, of course, there’s the real hippies from the from the 1960 and 1970s. And so I suppose I’m defining it as people who are generally skeptical of the machine, who are generally don’t trust the system, and who are trying to do something good for the world. That’s conscious, that’s ethical, and that’s green, sustainable, gentle on your people who care about those things. Yeah, that’s that’s and people who really have an issue with marketing, they have a hard time with it. Receiving it and delivering it, they just apoplectic they can’t. A lot of them can’t even bring themselves to do it.
Silas Rose 8:34
I guess I would define the modern business hippie as somewhat of a social entrepreneur. And with that, I think comes a lot of high idealism and vision, but often kind of weak in the kind of action part when it comes to especially marketing, or creating a sales funnel, so it’ll be really interesting to kind of dive into, what is the resistance?
Tad Hargrave 9:09
Well, to me, fundamentally, at the acute level, what it comes down to is either they, they have no idea how to market at all. They’ve just never thought about it. So it’s just an unknown. It’s overwhelming. Where do I even start? There’s that or they’ve gotten advice, but it’s sketchy, pushy, manipulative, and they think that’s what marketing has to be. So they either have no idea what to do, or they didn’t have a very clear idea of what to do, but it’ll mean they can’t sleep at night. And then they there’s that terror of do I sell my soul and do the thing that works. Or I just tell it, sell my soul, keep my integrity but I’m broke. And that’s it. That’s a helpless choice to make. I mean, easy when it sort of theoretically Of course we all choose Integrity. But when rent is due, and you don’t have any food to eat, and you’re you got kids, and it’s, it’s very difficult and very seductive. When people are standing up there saying, Well, you just have to do these simple tactics, and you can get people to buy right away. So when people are desperate, of course, they’ll fall for this. And then I think so that’s at the acute level, they really just don’t know what they know. And so they know something’s got bad advice. But at the deeper level, they really do have a political economic analysis of what’s happening in the world. And they have questions about the whole money thing. And banks and the Federal Reserve and interest charged on money, and then it’s how do you suddenly become, you know, a business when you see that capitalism is destroying so much of the world or, you know, certain form of capitalism, we could say. And that’s, it’s just confounding at that, you know, even without bad marketing advice, or thinking about that, just the thought of going into business, is suddenly oh, now I’m the man now I’m a part of the machine. And for me, that was a distinction I really had to make. I went to all the anti globalization, protests hanging out with my anarchist friends. And it really dawned on me that the Monsanto and Cargill, and, you know, all these big tech, Big Pharma, multinational corporations, that’s a completely different thing than that mom and pop shop on the Wall Street and Main Street are not the same streets at all. Completely different. And supporting local independent business is as good. This is this is I mean, yes, still capitalism. But it’s not this kind of cartel capitalism, that seems to be destroying so much. And so. But I think a lot of them haven’t really wrestled that out themselves. It’s just well, business, bad capitalism, bad money bad. And then when you add, on top of all that most of us have had experiences with money, where money has been used to hurt us, or we’ve used money to hurt other people. And then we’ve all had experiences of marketing and being marketed to in ways that didn’t feel good. So you put that all together in the mix. And it’s, it’s often almost always it’s unarticulated. It’s not articulated, they couldn’t put words to it. They just have a vague feeling of dis ease, and gross and yuck around marketing. It just feels bad. And they want nothing to do with it. But then they become an entrepreneur. And now they have to, and they have to unpack this. And they really don’t even know where to start. They just know it feels awful, but they need to do it. And they need help sorting out how to do that.
Silas Rose 13:00
I really think that becoming an entrepreneur is probably one of the hardest and most rewarding kind of personal development paths one can be on, because you confront so much in kind of internal patterns, or belief systems that might not have surfaced if you hadn’t kind of put yourself in that position, especially when it comes to, you know, paying rent as you say, yeah, like giving up the security of a JOB and going out on your own. So it really seems the rub is really around money. Do you work with people and their money mindset when when you’re coaching?
Tad Hargrave 13:48
I don’t, it is not my thing. I mean, I have opinions about money and pricing. And I’m always happy to share those with people. But now I don’t tend to work on the money mindset because I find so much of it can be handled just by shifting our orientation around marketing. If we look at marketing is fundamentally we’re trying to get people to say yes and to buy. Everything gets so weird, right away, and manipulative, but if I’m walking into a conversation, not already convinced that they need it, but open for a conversation. And my intention is genuinely just to get to the truth of if it’s a fit. That seems to handle most of it. every once awhile, people really do have some deep, deep money wounds that are very particular and that may need to be looked at. But in my experience, if we keep our attention on the truth of if it’s a fit, most of the rest of it goes away.
Silas Rose 14:51
I still want to kind of drill down a little bit around this because I feel it’s so integral. I guess the question is more around attributing value to what you do. That seems to be a real sticking point.
Tad Hargrave 15:03
Yeah. Well, and what makes it stickier, of course, is the rhetoric and it’s often used as charge what you’re worth, which immediately causes trouble because it’s it conflates our personal worth as human being to what we charge. And this gets people tied up in knots all the time is because it’s an impossible formulation, there’s no way to come to that. And then yeah, if we say, Okay, well, what, what is what I do worth? Again, it’s so hard to come to that. And so instead, I would offer two things to people when they’re looking at their pricing. The first is just to look at the facts of their life. And that includes everything from debt, they have financial goals, they have their ongoing expenses. And of course, for most of us, we have no idea about any of those numbers, you ask people, well, how much do you make per year, they don’t even know, you know, what are your expenses? We just don’t know. So if you’re in that point of trying to figure out your pricing, it’s just a good time to sit down and have a have a visit with those realities. But with some of the facts, too, are also what do other people charge? In the industry, you know, what’s the what’s the maximum that’s charged out there? What’s the least amount that’s charged, which at least can give you some, probably some window to play within, that your price is probably going to be in there unless you want to do a lot of explaining as to why it’s a lot lower or a lot higher, which is, you know, possible. But we have to start with the facts. And I think most people don’t really think that through. And so it becomes this internal wrestling, like, what is the value of what I do, and but what it could transform people’s lives and all these ways. So it’s really just invaluable, but you know, I can’t. So first we just start with the realities of the world. And then I think the second thing is we just go with our feelings and Mark silver part of business.com. You talks about this idea of kind of intuitive pricing, because resonant pricing, but where you might start with Okay, charging $10 an hour, how does that feel? To low $1,000 an hour? How does it feel too high. And then you just start going back and forth, like a pendulum. And you take a you know, particular offering. And you just and you will, if you really looked at the facts, you will find yourself settling on a price and it might be lower or higher than you would have thought. But you will know it’s the right one because your whole body just relaxes. And then that’s what you charge. And it might seem but wait, this is way lower than I thought, okay, but if you’re all tied up in knots about charging a higher price, that’s not going to work well. So start with the amount that you relaxed on. And that may increase quickly as you get comfortable with it. But it’s better to just go with what feels right in your body. And it might be more like, wow, I just totally relaxed at the higher number. Right? Okay, so they you just have to figure out how to market yourself in a market so that the value is clear. You know, Matt Ross is a marketing guy, he said the purpose of marketing is about establishing the value beyond the immediately apparent. So it’s not immediately apparent what the value is that so much of marketing. And so if you make products, it’s really helping people understand everything that went into the making of the product, because of course, most of us have no idea, especially if it’s handmade, we just have zero idea, the amount of time and labor that goes into it. And then there’s the it’s a service. But yeah, there’s also I mean, what kind of time and training and expertise and how many hours have you worked? All this goes into it? And yeah, it’s not a bad idea to also articulate what are the benefits of it? Well, yeah, if you do this, and this problem goes away, or you get this result, here’s some of the consequences that can happen. That’s fine to articulate too. But that’s my that’s my general sense of it.
Silas Rose 19:28
And sounds like it’s really about kind of attunement.
Tad Hargrave 19:32
Yeah. Yeah, there’s the attunement is a big deal. It’s, you know, if I can give, I think the major problem in the world by the summit up is illiteracy, not in terms of books that we’re, we can’t read almost anything. People can’t read a room. Can’t read faces can’t read a situation. You know, and so it’s the old permaculture answer to every question is, well, it depends. As if that’s true in marketing sales. What should I do? Well, it depends. It really depends on the situation. Yes, there are some general principles, but then you have to translate it into the situation and the time and the place that you’re in. And so there’s no formula. I mean, there’s plenty of formulas. But if you try to apply a formula, onto a situation that doesn’t belong in, it ends up being very, very bad. So yeah, there’s an attunement to the world, and to ourselves to our own bodies. So many things go wrong, yet, when people are not properly attuned, they’re just not paying attention. And then it’s the it’s the right solution at the wrong time. And that causes a problem. And then, on the relationship thing I know, we spoke about this a bit in the workshop. I mean, the word relationship can be defined in a lot of ways, the distinction I’d make is that it’s often given as advice in the marketing world, you know, just focus on building relationships with people first. But that’s often with this hidden agenda, that I’m gonna build a relationship so that eventually you will buy. That’s why schmoozing In other words, and then people come to us for help. And we say, we’ve tried to just get all buddy buddy with them. But what they really just want is a good old diagnosis, prognosis prescription from us, and the buddy buddy stuff. And maybe happened later. Once that relationship has been established, then we can get into to really getting to know about each other’s kids. But I find sometimes people try to use that as a tool too early, as a way of almost like guilting people into working with them. And it’s also it’s not just questionable ethically, but it can burn you out. Because now you’re trying to sustain all these relationships with all these people who may not be a fit at all, they may never want to work with you. And so I would rather an entrepreneur get very clear, but who they want to work who the communities they want to serve are, and have a lot of conversations that are just candid with people to see if it’s a fit. And then their effort developing and deepening relationships with those people. Now, of course, on social media, you can also be sharing about your life that people learn about you so that they might feel comfortable. But to me, that doesn’t feel like a relationship. You know, and the evidence of that, for me is, as I get better known, if people come up to me, and they know me, but I don’t know anything about them. They’ve been following me for years, but I’ve never met. So that’s not a relationship. It might become one. But that’s not what it is.
Silas Rose 22:48
I sort of feel that the screens, and the time we spend online, really just kind of messes up that attunement or ability to communicate and, and read the subtle language. I recently attended a workshop or hosting a workshop with you. You offered some really helpful, simple advice, essentially kind of three principles that you use in all marketing. Would you’d be willing to kind of give a brief summary.
Tad Hargrave 23:20
I got this from a book called Monopolize Your Marketplace by Rich Harshaw. And this isn’t his wording, but I think the spirit of is the same is the first thing we have to do is get people’s attention. The second thing we have to do is filter to see if it’s a fit. And third, we got to lower the risk of them taking the first step. And the thing that really struck me that he’d said in the book is just everything you ever do in marketing has to achieve all three and whether it’s a poster, it’s a conversation, it’s a presentation, it’s an ad all of it has to do all three of these sort of very useful as a kind of broad checklist now getting attention of course these What else is there if they don’t know where they’re they don’t see the ad there’s everything else is not nothing’s gonna happen. So first, we have to get their attention. Yeah, second, we have to filter meaning it was so what this and now they notice that that’s all that happens with getting attention there. They see us are aware of us. But now they’ve got to see us is this something that’s relevant to them that they want to learn more about and delve into deeper? And then the the safety piece, you know, this risk? Okay, well, they noticed us and maybe it’s relevant, it’s it is a fit, but it doesn’t mean it’s not scary to want to spend that kind of money or to invest that kind of time or to even go into the some of these issues. There’s big risk for people. And so we we need to do all three of these. Now with the getting attention, fundament believe that comes down to word of mouth marketing, this comes down to that, because that’s how most of attention is gained, people tend to think, Oh, get their attention. So I have to do something big and flashy, loud. But almost all attention, in practical, practical purposes is done through, I heard it from a friend. With the filtering, there’s really three levels of that relevance, credibility and value. Meaning this is how they’re looking at us. The first thing on their mind, is this relevant to me, can this help me solve a problem? I have got a result I want? Is this the kind of product I want? There’s a knee and that happens in about three seconds. I mean, they look at us and suss out their relevance right away. And if it’s relevant, that doesn’t mean they buy. Now it’s like, do I trust you? Are you credible? You know, is this product going to last? Is it a good quality? Why should I trust me, you say, Okay, you say, you can help me solve this problem that is relevant to me, I am struggling with this problem. But you know, why should I trust you. And so there’s, there’s ways we have to build that kind of credibility, which I think when sometimes people are focusing on want to build a relationship, I want to say you should probably focus on credibility first, before they even open up to you just be trustworthy. And there’s lots of ways to build credibility, you know, everything from case studies, testimonials to doing presentations, statistically, there’s lots of ways we can do it, and then the, then there’s the value, and it’s just, is the price kind of does it seem like, yeah, that’s a good return on investment. If I spend this much money, I’ll get even more value in return. That’s, that’s a really big deal. And a lot of people don’t think through the pricing. And so you know, they’ll, even if it’s relevant, and they trust you, but then they look at the $10,000, for an hour of your time, well, that’s insane. Oh, but I went to a personal thing, and they said, to charge what I’m worth, and it’s so and then with the lowering the risk, there’s fundamentally three things you can do to lower the risk. One is, you can reputation as the main thing, which ties us back to the beginning of word of mouth. But that that’s the biggest thing that reduces risk, even if something is very risky, but you know, 10, people who’ve done it and loved it, that handles the risk more than anything, then second, there’s education. You can be teaching people, here’s how we do what we do, you know, what I call point of view marketing, that dramatically reduces the risk to, and then the thing everybody thinks about as well, I can offer guarantees, which are great, and they do work. But that’s not really the fundamental thing. That reduces the risk, and why not throw them in? Because it can make a dramatic difference in the response, you get to your offers. You know, if there’s an offer that has good value, at the pricing level, and you’ve made a good case for that, and then there’s some additional guarantee on it. Yeah, you can double the response you get on some of those offers. But so it’s always those three in that order. You know, if it’s a an ad, like a poster, well, the headline is going to, you know, first of all, hopefully, it’s in a place that people actually noticed posters, and you get their attention. And the headline is going to establish is this relevant to me or not? So an example was, there was a moving company, I think, Dallas, Texas, and it was the first all women’s moving company in Texas. And the headline was, last year, there were seven to 862 lawsuits against moving companies in Dallas, Texas, at some headline, ask these 15 questions to prevent an unpleasant moving experience. Well, it’s a nice hook, you know, you kind of you know, I’m thinking about moving and yeah, and then they said, and then there were the 15 questions. So this is a kind of educational piece. building credibility, and you read it and all those are good questions. One of them was about insurance, and are they fully insured or self insured? Because we’ve, I think, fully insured, if they drop your TV, they were all replacement value, if it’s self insured, they replaced by the pound. So you get 20 bucks or something, you know, the TV. So and then, but then they’d lowering the risk was, Call us now for our free moving company comparison checklist. As that was the lowering the risk of taking the next step. So there’s all sorts of ways this can happen. But those three have to be achieved. So it’s not a bad idea for people to look at their marketing. And if it’s not working, if you’re not getting the kind of clients and the number of clients you want. Where’s the malfunction? It’s one of those three.
Silas Rose 29:49
Back to attention. I think there’s a common myth that we have to actually really spend a lot of time on social media. competing for attention and for a hippie like me that that just, it’s just such a bad proposition. What’s your belief around social media at this point?
Tad Hargrave 30:12
I use it, but you don’t need it. I mean, my take generally a market is you don’t need anything, you just need something. You don’t need anything in particular. In other words, you don’t need to blog, or be on substack, or be on YouTube, or go to networking events. You don’t need to do workshops, you don’t need to have an intro talk, you don’t need to write a book, you don’t need to have an app. I mean, the all the things, we’re told, you don’t need anything. But you do need to do something. And what does that something? Well, whatever it is, has to achieve those three things. So then in terms of getting their attention, it’s just good to go back to the fundamental thing we’re aiming at, instead of saying, well, I need to be on social media. No, you just need to get people’s attention. And you can absolutely get people’s attention, without any social media at all, ever. So completely not required. I like it. Because it’s easy, it makes things easy to share. It’s helped me build my email list. So strategically, I’m important personally, but if it’s also the slowest approach, I mean, if somebody said, I need clients tomorrow, or you know, in 30 days, I need to get some clients, social media would be the last thing. I’d say no, instead of this, you know, within that the attention level, there’s also these three things, there’s a kind of a cold level, a warm level and a hot level in marketing. And the cold level is you’re just approaching strangers, which is what most people think of marketing, I’m going up to strangers and trying to talk them into buying what I sell. And that’s hard. That’s just there’s no, it’s like dating, going up to somebody you don’t know. And introducing yourself is rough. And, you know, it’s like, going up to bat and even the baseball greats when, like they, they strike out 80% of the time. So that’s what it’s like this cold approach is mostly you strike out, then there’s the warm approach. And the warm approach is you say, okay, instead of going up to people individually, one by one, as a stranger, I’m gonna find who already knows them, I’m gonna find what I call hubs. And I’ll have those hubs do the introduction. So that takes more time upfront, but it’s much faster in the long term. You know, you’re still trying to get their attention, say, shine the spotlight over here on me, you just look at where the spotlights already shining and you go stand there. It’s much easier. So you say, Okay, I’m trying to sell these beer steins, you know, and, you know, these wooden beers times I make, where do I go? Well, I just set up a stand on the street, and I sell a few, but it’s really rough, and most people walk by, or you can go to a beer festival, and sell them, they’re much more likely, you know, as the girl guy, the example I gave in the workshop, trying to sell Girl Guide cookies, and you go door to door knocking, and it’s takes weeks, you know, to get all your cookies sold. Or you can just put it in front of a place that sells weed. And all the people who are you know that the munchies are coming out? Easy? So the old question, you know, if you’re gonna make a hamburger stand, and you could only have one competitive advantage, what do you want to be, but you want to be right by a hungry crowd. That’s the thing. So that’s how you get people’s attention. Whereas their attention already? Where’s the hungry crowd just go there, who’s already connected to them? Who did they already trust, do that. And then that takes us to the third level, which is the heart level, which is word of mouth level, where now it’s just you’re getting most of your business by referral and word of mouth, which is a very real place that businesses can get takes time. But if you, you know, have a real niche, and you’re really good at what you do, and you build these relationships with the hubs, and over time, this can become, it just takes less effort, not no effort, but dramatically less than it used to in the beginning. It’s just such a grind. In the beginning, there’s a certain inevitable amount of cold marketing that you end up doing. Because nobody knows your name. Nobody’s glad you came. You just have to get out there. That’s how it is. But the goal is just not to stay there. You build the relationships with the hubs, eventually you become a hub. And none of that requires social media. You know, if you were a life coach and you’re wanting to get clients first of all, I figure out what kind of clients I’d pick some sort of a niche to start with. And then okay, where do those people hang out? Who’s connected to them? How can I build that relationship? Could maybe I get one of those people to host me to bring me in you You think of it in that way, and then that’s much, much faster, because you can post on social media for years, and not get much of a following. And gets no clients at all. So, yeah, it’s not the social media, it’s the function that it’s playing.
Silas Rose 35:18
I’d really like to figure out a way to utilize Chat GBT or some other AI tool to sort of set the algorithms on each other, Do have you have any thoughts about how it’s going to change the marketing field,
Tad Hargrave 35:34
Not in depth, other than from a societal level, I’m horrified by what this is going to do. This kind of plagiarism software that just rips off other people’s stuff. You know, as we’re seeing with the art, oh, who needs to hire your friend, as an artist to do your portrait, this AI thing can just whip up a million different versions of portraits that make you look super fantastic all the time. So societally, I’m concerned, but from a marketing standpoint, I’m not in particular, and I may be naive to it. But what it seems to me is a is just an algorithm. That’s it. It’s not creative, it can’t give you a point of view. So to the extent that people are going to make rely so heavily on that, I say, I wish you luck. But I think somebody who does the deep work of really depth around their ethics, and how they treat people depth around their niche, and really figuring out what their role is depth around their point of view, and articulating how they see things and educating people depth around their business model and really constructing a smart structure, architecture and then depth around relationships with the hubs that if I had to bet money on somebody who’s just going to go all in with the generic business with AI versus the depth of it, I’ll put money on depth all the time. And so I think what we’re about to see is a lot more noise in the world. And less signal, because just it’s going to be easier to pump out content. There’s AI generated stuff, but it’s shit. It’s just so generic. It’s so derivative of everybody else. And so it’s like, great. Go ahead, write your book with Chet GPT. I mean, knock yourself out. And we’ll be over here, dig in deep. And, and the AI might win in the short term, but I don’t think it’s going to really be the thing of the long term. So there’ll be more noise, and anyone with a clear signal is going to stand out even more. So is great for me. Yeah.
Silas Rose 37:42
Depth and building relationships. Yeah, a winning formula. Tad, thank you so much. It’s been a great conversation. How can people connect with you?
Tad Hargrave 37:54
Just go to marketingforhippies.com. And it’s all there.
Silas Rose 37:58
Awesome. Thanks again.